Sumo Watch

Originally posted by FieldThrower I don't like obese players of any race. Seriously, there should be a minimum mass-to-height or body fat percentage in the NFL and college. I liked football better when true athletes like Bill Fralic and Howie Long used to play on the line in the 80s. Now every team needs sumos that follow the prototypes of "Fridge" Perry, Warren Sapp, Gilbert Brown, Nate Newton, Tony Siragusa, Lincoln Kennedy, et al. Football has become more dangerous and slower in the trenches because of the arms race of fat. Let the fatties make their livings as bouncers, competitive eaters, and spokesmen for weight loss systems. Health organizations have already got onto the NFL for this very reason.

I agree.  Hockey doesn't use 500 pound goalies just to take up space. 

I briefly watched a one-hour show on the NFL Network last night about Hank Stram and the Saints preparing for their upcoming game against the Packers in November of 1976.  The offensive and defensive linemen, including the black ones, were normal looking other than being taller and more muscular than your average man.  No sumos.  Most of the players on the team (which looked to be about 3/5 white) could be described as lean.  

I had football cards going back to the 1960s and have seen older ones.  There were no sumos until relatively recently.  Ernie Ladd of the AFL was considered a freak in the '60s because he weighed 300 pounds, but he was also something like 6-9. 

I look back at some of the pro wrestlers of the 80s and 90s, and how many were ex-linemen in football who played in D1-football, CFL, USFL, and even the NFL. Guys like Lex Luger (Larry Pfohl), "Dr. Death" Steve Williams, Ron Simmons, the "Hacksaws" - Jim Duggan and Butch Reed, Bill Goldberg, "Droz", Brian Pillman, Steve Austin (played DE @ UNT), The Rock, and last but not least Steve "Mongo" McMichael.

What strikes me about all these former football linemen is A. many are white, and B. they have little to no bodyfat and some were absolutely shredded. Even Vader (Leon White), while overweight, was still agile and strong.   What came over the NFL to move from these types of bodies to the guys that look more like WWE's Bastion Booger, Yokozuna, or King Kong Bundy?

Did the caste system realize that going for shorter, pudgier linemen would favor the blacks? From my personal observation of many years among the common black person, most come in two shapes - trim, tall and athletic (skill players in the NFL and all black NBA players), or somewhat short, and obese (NFL linemen). There really is no in-between if you observe the common (pure-blooded) black male at the swimming pool, gym, or any where else they show their physique. Even in native African tribes, you'll see the occasionally fatso amidst the otherwise skinny people. It truly is a race of physique extremes.

The old type of lineman favored whites as he wasn't grossly fat, but had generous padding. He was also generally taller (most fat blacks are short for some reason) and focused on strength, leverage, and toughness over girth and "explosiveness". Fat blacks do tend to be a hair faster than fat whites and members of other races, but I wouldn't make this as the basis for stocking the position personnel of an entire sport unless I had other, political motives.

Edited by FieldThrower

In my opinion, the perfect prototypical NFL lineman for today's game should be around 6'3" to 6'6" and weigh around 260 on the low end to 290 on the high end. There should be very few guys who are 300 pounds and over instead of the masses of these fat, overweight, unathletic and unhealthy sumo's that currently disgrace the field. If you really watch the games, alot of these guys can barely move and are not even effective for a whole drive, much less an entire 4 quarters. They aren't strong for their size they are just flabby and fat and regularly get overpowered by smaller DE's who are more in shape and have more stamina. The NFL has tricked itself and the DWF's into believing that you have to have these 320+ pound Sumo's to be successful because a few of them have had moderate success. The truth is though that most of them have failed and are far worse than the smaller white lineman who are still very big by NFL standards over a historical timeline.     

Originally posted by Don Wassall Originally posted by FieldThrower I don't like obese players of any race. Seriously, there should be a minimum mass-to-height or body fat percentage in the NFL and college. I liked football better when true athletes like Bill Fralic and Howie Long used to play on the line in the 80s. Now every team needs sumos that follow the prototypes of "Fridge" Perry, Warren Sapp, Gilbert Brown, Nate Newton, Tony Siragusa, Lincoln Kennedy, et al. Football has become more dangerous and slower in the trenches because of the arms race of fat. Let the fatties make their livings as bouncers, competitive eaters, and spokesmen for weight loss systems. Health organizations have already got onto the NFL for this very reason. I agree.  Hockey doesn't use 500 pound goalies just to take up space.  I briefly watched a one-hour show on the NFL Network last night about Hank Stram and the Saints preparing for their upcoming game against the Packers in November of 1976.  The offensive and defensive linemen, including the black ones, were normal looking other than being taller and more muscular than your average man.  No sumos.  Most of the players on the team (which looked to be about 3/5 white) could be described as lean.   I had football cards going back to the 1960s and have seen older ones.  There were no sumos until relatively recently.  Ernie Ladd of the AFL was considered a freak in the '60s because he weighed 300 pounds, but he was also something like 6-9.  <!-- Message ''"" -->

I have seen that show. It is one of the NFL Films Lost Treasures. Ernie Ladd was indeed considered exceptionaly large in the 1960's. He was listed at 6ft 9in, and 300 pounds. Ladd was pretty well built, and fairly fast. He did some pro wrestling in the off-season, I believe.

In the 1960's, some of the best defensive tackles did not have the best looking bodies according to Jerry Kramer in his book, Instant Replay. Kramer said something like, "Some of them have paunches that you can see in the locker room, but all of them have muscles that can hurt you on the field." As I remember, Kramer said that Alex Karras and Merlin Olsen (who was an exceptional physical specimen) were the toughest DT's to play against.

meanwhile, "Mount" Cody has been sitting on the sidelines with an injured knee that buckled under his own weight in his last game.

i'm sure he's really been hitting the exercise bike during rehab.

Originally posted by FieldThrower From my personal observation of many years among the common black person, most come in two shapes - trim, tall and athletic (skill players in the NFL and all black NBA players), or somewhat short, and obese (NFL linemen). There really is no in-between if you observe the common (pure-blooded) black male at the swimming pool, gym, or any where else they show their physique. Even in native African tribes, you'll see the occasionally fatso amidst the otherwise skinny people. It truly is a race of physique extremes.

Did this observation of "common black persons" take place in Africa? I imagine if I moved back to Chester, Pennsylvania my experience would be similar to yours - but I don't want to chance it.*

Is "junk food" and drink as readily available in Nairobi as it is in North Philadelphia?

And getting back close to the topic, I saw footage of Gene Upshaw in action for the Raiders shortly after he died and he looked pretty well built too.

*Even with a racetrack/casino now open in Chester and Philly's MLS team coming in 2010 (they'll play in a new soccer specific stadium in Chester).

John

Edited by foreverfree

Well it now seems the  scouts only plan on scouting these superior affletes. Take a look at any mock draft they have 5 black ol goin in the first round. Whities need not apply untill round 3! It's funny how they have the rams, cardinals, bengals,oakland, and pittsburgh all picking blacks! Haven't they kept with this pattern the last several years and their lines still suck?? I am not in favor with the black o-linemen. Maybe i am biased but as a coach i would rather have a 6'4 290 pound guard (white very rare black) that can pull and get to the second level to block lb's than a 6'4 330(black) pound guy who uses their "superior" strength in fat to lean on people! Its just sickening! I have no clue how they think these fatasses can play tackle in the league with so many pass rushers at DE? Or is that a double standard to the white tackle that only he can be a liability in pass protection?

Yeah i really would like to talk to an nfl scout some time. Just sit down and ask them their thought proccess!!! Why are you so in love with fat black men? Haha i guess i shouldn't let this get to me. Every year underrated white o-linemen find starting spots on teams but it goes unnoticed. After the early rounds nearly all the black prospects drop off and it is usually white guys.

compare the fat ass black sumos the NFL and so many collegiate coaches love to the opposite type of o-linemen that are available. namely, white linemen like Derek Hardman from Eastern Kentucky.

Hardman is 6-6 and a lean 282-pounds. in addition to being a terrific basketball player in high school, get this! he was an all-state performer in the 110-meter hurdles.

so much for there not being any athletic big white men.


Derek Hardman

Lets not forget about Joe Staley who is a tremendous athlete.